Wednesday, December 03, 2008

Polaroid Pack Film, the final lesson

I've done a previous post about pack film, but it still seems a bit convoluted. I wanted to simplify pack film (also referred to as peel-apart), as there still seem to be lots of questions about which camera can take which film. I took most of this information from The Land List, so if you want more information about a specific camera, go there and search. Land List is a fantastic recource, but I know when I first started to get into Polaroids, the site just confused the heck out of me. I didn't even know where to start looking. All I want to do here is list the film types and what cameras you can use with that film type. So you can just do a search for the camera name you are curious about and wherever it sits, that's the kind of film it can use. If it doesn't appear on this list, it most likely doesn't use pack film. I'm not going to list the cameras that take 600 film or Time Zero, because that would pretty much be every other camera available (aside from roll film and Spectra).
If there are additional film types available in the future (see Polapremium), I will just add them in here for future searches.
And I'm not covering large format pack film, Type 50s, 800s, etc.

Okay, so there are two basic pack film types, Type 80 and Type 100, and three film speeds, ISO 75-100, ISO 400 and ISO 3000. This is important, because some cameras can use all, while some can only use one or the other.

Type 100 films (ISO 75-100)
Types 105, 108, 125i, Studio, 611, 661, 664, 665, 668, 669, 679, 689, 690, 691, 64 Tungsten, ID-UV (ID Ultraviolet), 100 Blue, 100 Chocolate, Fuj FP-100B, Fuji FP-100C

Type 100 films (ISO 3000)
Types 107, 107c, 084, 667, 3200B, Fuji FP-3000B

Odd Type 100 films
Type 612 (ISO 20,000 for CRT recording)
Type 663 (ISO 800)
100 Sepia (ISO 1500)

Type 100 films (ISO 400)
Types 672, Fuji FP-400B

Type 80 films (ISO 75-100)
Types 84, 85, 88, 89, Viva Colour, Chocolate

Type 80 films (ISO 3000)
Type 87, Viva 3000

Those are all of the Type 80 and 100 pack films that I know of. I included Tungsten 64 (ISO 64) and 125i/Studio (ISO 125) with the ISO 75-100...it's close enough to work the same. Some sites have 690 listed as ISO 125, but mine says ISO 100. ID-UV is ISO 80 in the US and ISO 100 in Europe. Note that Type 084 is different than Type 84. There may also be a Fuji FP-500B. I don't include the Type 612 below, because it requires special equipment. The 100 Sepia is new with an ISO of 1500. Not sure yet how this will work out with an automatic camera, but I've seen some successful shots.

In the camera list, I've broken it down by film types. The first part lists cameras that use only Type 100. The second part lists cameras that use only Type 80, and the third part lists cameras that can take both Type 80 and Type 100. Each section is broken down into which cameras can use the specific film speeds. That's about as simple as I could think to make it. So you can look up your camera and know exactly what kinds of film to use.

All Type 100 and Type 80
Types 084, 84, 85, 87, 88, 89, 105, 107, 107c, 108, 125i, Studio, 611, 661, 664, 665, 667, 3200B, 668, 669, 672, 679, 689, 690, 691, 64 Tungsten, Chocolate, ID-UV, 100 Blue, 100 Chocolate, 100 Sepia, Fuji FP-100B, Fuji FP-100C, Fuji FP-3000B, Fuji FP-400B, Viva 3000, Viva Colour, and probably Type 663

Models (Automatic) 100, 220, 225, 230, 240, 250, 350, 355, 360, 450, 455
180, 185, 190, 195, 195 NPC version
600, 600SE
Fuji FP-1 (probably takes Type 80s)
Konica Instant Press (probably takes Type 80s)
Pinhole 100

Type 100 and Type 80
Types 084, 84, 85, 87, 88, 89, 105, 107, 107c, 108, 125i, Studio, 611, 661, 664, 665, 667, 3200B, 668, 669, 679, 689, 690, 691, 64 Tungsten, Chocolate, ID-UV, 100 Blue, 100 Chocolate, 100 Sepia (?), Fuji FP-100B, Fuji FP-100C, Fuji FP-3000B, Viva 3000, Viva Colour (no Type 672 or Fuji FP-400B)

Models (Automatic) 101, 102, 103, 104, 125, 135
Models (Automatic) 210, 215
Models (Automatic) 315, 320, 325, 330, 335, 340
Models (Automatic) 420, 430
Clincher 2
Colorpack 200
EE60
EE66
Instant 30
Propack
Super Colour Swinger III
Super Shooter
Super Shooter Plus
The Reporter
The Reporter SE

Type 100 and Type 80
Types 84, 85, 88, 89, 105, 108, 125i, Studio, 611, 661, 664, 665, 668, 669, 679, 689, 690, 691, 64 Tungsten, Chocolate, ID-UV, 100 Blue, 100 Chocolate, 100 Sepia (?), Fuji FP-100B, Fuji FP-100C, Viva Colour (no Type 084, 87, 107, 107c, Viva 3000, 672, 667, 3200B, Fuji FP-400B or Fuji FP-3000B)

EE55
EE58
EE100
EE100 Special
Memory Maker
Minute Maker
Minute Maker BC
Minute Maker Plus
Minute Maker Plus SE

Type 100
Types 084, 105, 107, 108, 125i, Studio, 611, 661, 664, 665, 668, 667, 3200B, 669, 679, 689, 690, 691, 64 Tungsten, ID-UV, 100 Blue, 100 Chocolate, Fuji FP-100B, Fuji FP-100C, Fuji FP-3000B, 100 Sepia (?) (no Type 672 or Fuji FP-400B)

Colorpack II
Colorpack III
Colorpack IV
CP5
Colorpack M6
Countdown 70
Countdown 90
Countdown M60
Countdown M80
Super Colorpack
Super Colorpack IV
The Colorpack
Colorpack 100

Type 100
Types 105, 108, 125i, Studio, 611, 661, 664, 665, 668, 669, 679, 689, 690, 691, 64 Tungsten, ID-UV, 100 Blue, 100 Chocolate, Fuji FP-100B, Fuji FP-100C (no Type 084, 107, 107c, 667, 3200B, 672, 100 Sepia, Fuji FP-400B or Fuji FP-3000B)

Big Shot

Type 100
Type 084, 107, Type 667, 3200B and Fuji FP-3000B only

Big Swinger 3000

All Type 80
Types 84, 85, 87, 88, 89, Viva 3000, Viva Colour, Chocolate

Colorpack 80
Colorpack 82
Colorpack 85
EE44
Electric Zip
Instant 20
Pinhole 80
Super Colour Swinger
Super Colour Swinger II
The Clincher

Type 80
Types 84, 85, 88, 89, Viva Colour, Chocolate (no Type 87 or Viva 3000)

EE33
EE38
EE88
Instant 10
Colorpack 88
Colour Swinger
Colour Swinger II
Square Shooter
Square Shooter 2
Square Shooter 4

Type 80
Type 87 and Viva 3000 only

EE22
Super Swinger
Swinger EE
Zip

That's it!
There are also quite a few ID portrait cameras that I'm not particularly familiar with, like the Miniportrait 202 and Miniportrait 402, along with various models that require an electrical outlet, as well as various third-part creations. Many take Type 100 films, though a couple take 4x5 film. And I don't know which can take ASA 3000 film and which take ISO 75-100, etc. I also see an occasional pack film camera built by a third party meant to be used dentists or scientists, etc. Typically close-up cameras. If I can ever figure out which is which and what takes what, I'll add them to the list.

AND (always an and), there are also (I believe) four or five different Holga backs. Originally know as the Holgaroid (maybe unofficially), now known as the Polga (Polga Sun 4 is the current model). The original models took only Type 80, the new model takes both Type 80 and Type 100. You just have to read the description or ask questions if you buy one on eBay, as they all look about the same. I wouldn't imagine that ASA 3000 film would work well with these backs, as the shutter speed of the Holga is about 60-100th of a second, I think.

Now that I have the basic list out of the way, you may be wondering why some cameras can take some films and other can't...and you may be saying, "Where the heck are the pictures! Too many words, dude!" A quick review of the difference between Type 80 and Type 100.
Type 80 is a square format and Type 100 is a rectangle format. Simple as that. Here you see the Type 80 pack on top and the Type 100 pack below.


And a Type 80 shot:


Compare that to the Type 100 shot:


Now isn't that easy and a bit obvious?
So...why can some cameras use one type, while others can use both? Well, first off we have the size of the pack. The Type 80 cameras can only use Type 80 because a Type 100 film pack will not fit in the camera. Some Type 100 cameras can take only Type 100, while others can take Both 80 and 100. This is purely dependent upon the build of the camera. Some have little slots inside where the packs go. These slots hold the Type 80 in place via notches on the pack in the larger available space. So with some cameras, the Type 80 will either not push into place because there is no place for these notches to slide into, or the pack will fit but there is nothing to hold it towards the open end of the camera, so it just slides away and you can't pull the tab. You don't know which cameras take one or both unless you look at a list or try it yourself, as you can't tell from the outside. The Type 80 cameras looks smaller when you put them next to the Type 100 cameras, but it's sometimes difficult to differentiate the shape in a photo. Also note that while many of the cameras take both 100 and 80 film, the viewfinder is set for only Type 100, so you need to take into account that the film sits on the right side of the camera.

Okay, so that explains the film sizes. Now...why can some cameras use ISO 75-100 and some use ISO 3000, and some use both? First off, I say 75-100 because color film is sometimes ISO 80, and other times ISO 100, depending on film type, but it doesn't really affect your usage in the basic Polaroid. ISO 3000 (Type 87, Viva 3000, Type 667 and Fuji FP-3000B) is MUCH more sensitive to light, though, and requires a MUCH smaller aperture to expose an image. So...some cameras have a switch on the top front of the camera. This switch sets the ISO from 75 to 3000. If the camera doesn't have the switch, the aperture is either fixed for 75 (many cameras) or it is fixed for 3000 (only a couple cameras). The few cameras that can use both ASA types that don't have switches are completely manual cameras, which tend to be the higher-end cameras (AKA, more expensive cameras). These are the 180, 185, 190, 195 and 600/600SE, plus the Konica and Fuji. You control aperture and shutter speed manually, so you can take a wide range of film speeds and even shoot out of the film's natural range, like using 3000 in a dark room with a fast shutter speed. There are also a few original folder models (Models 100, 220, 225, 230, 240, 250, 350, 355, 360, 450, 455) that have ASA settings for 75, 150, 300 and 3000. The other original folders only have settings for 75 and 3000.

On a side note, I separated the 400 ISO films (672 and Fuji FP-400B), but you could probably get away with using them in any camera that takes ISO 75-100. I haven't tried, but it's close enough that it should work. You might just be a bit overexposed (you could set the exposure knob to darker). I wanted to keep it separate, though, as it isn't ideal. These are considered "professional films", whatever that means for small Polaroid prints. I've used Fuji FP-400B in my 195 and it took a few shots to get used to, but it has a nice tonal range.
More on these different film types in an older post. Some are very rare (like Tungsten 64 and 691), others are very easy to find (ID-UV, 669, 690, etc.)

To end this diatribe, I always get questions asking, "Where do I get such and such film/camera?" The answer? eBay it or google it. Type 80s are rare, but you can find them on eBay regularly. Type 100s are all over the place. It's pretty easy to find the Fuji films, and even the Polaroid types are readily available at OfficeDepot.com and other major outlets (for now, at least). Many are available from smaller photo suppliers, both Fuji and Polaroid, such as Polapremium, Freestyle Photo and Calumet. There are plenty of other sites, as well. It just depends on how much you want to pay for it. I generally stick to eBay, as you can find some great deals if you are persistent and patient.
Where do you find the cameras? eBay mostly (gee, they only have about 2,000 Polaroid cameras listed right now), or whatever auctions sites are available in your country. Goodwill has a decent selection of used cameras, as well. In Japan, Yahoo is the auction site of choice....but they don't ship to outsiders. I'm sure there are others. Polaroid stopped making cameras in the past year, and most of these cameras have been out of production for 20+ years, so used is the only way to go.
So, okay, I'm super tired of typing, and I'm not ever going to do another post explaining pack film...i think I'll stick to talking about silly things like pixies and peanut butter (or taking photos of them). I will update this list if I need to, though. Hope I kept it simple, obvious and useful!

Again, if you have such-and-such camera, say a Sun 650, and it doesn't show up on this list, there is a 99.99 percent chance (I may have missed a camera or two) that it doesn't use pack film. It probably uses 600 or 779 integral film. So no need to post a question like "How come my Sun 650 doesn't show up on this list? Can I use Fuji FP-3000B in it?" Because the answer is 99.99 percent likely to be no. If it's not here, and it doesn't have SX-70 somewhere on it, it is probably an integral 600 camera, or possible a Spectra Camera. You can't really mistake a roll film camera for a pack film camera, because they are either HUGE and look very old, or they are small but have a big round spot in the back for a roll of film. And if it is here, and it says it doesn't use Fuji FP-3000B, then no need to ask, "Can I use Fuji FP-3000B in my camera?" I know people sometimes like to ask first and read later, though. I generally don't have problems with questions...just saying. Adios and enjoy your pack film cameras!

28 comments:

  1. what is 64 Tungsten? I've never heard of it before

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  2. I believe it is meant for indoor tungsten flash or lighting, and the ISO is 64. It has a blue cast to it, pretty rare, but I found a couple boxes on ebay. Also known as 64T.

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  3. great post. thanks for taking the time to research and put it together. wish there was something like this when i first got into polaroids. :)

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  4. great, list, only innacuracy i saw was when you said:

    "There is also the original model 100, which has ASA settings for 75, 150, 300 and 3000. This was the only automatic camera with a setting for anything other than 75 and 3000."

    I only caught this because i know that my 230 has all of those film speed settings on it, as well as my 360. That's why i found it puzzling that you placed the 100 as the only automatic pack film camera to be able to accept 400 speed materials. The 250, 350, and 450 all have the 75, 150, 300, and 300 settings too.

    Joe

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  5. Thanks for the corrections. I obviously haven't held all of these cameras in my hands, so I try to get what I can from the Web, etc. Fixed!

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  6. awesome, your blog is really a great resource in general. Props on this list, its great addition to the Land List, which we both know is a little thick to sort through if you don't know what your looking at.

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  7. Thank's! The Land List made me go crazy after a while, you had to be like Rainman or something to understand the structure there.. Well done! Now if I could just find some film..

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  8. incredibly helpful. i stumbled across this while trying to find out more information on 100 chocolate film and the different versions of the colorpack. your explanations are wonderful - thank you!!

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  9. Was just fitting my type 89 film in my EE55 - it seems to catch it and stop the film from sliding away, but I thought I'd google and double check that it wasn't going to shift around in there. And voila! Of coure your blog came up. Thanks!

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  10. Wow, thank you so much for all this incredible information! I just discovered that we have a Polaroid 225 that has literally been lying around, with the leatherette case on a shelf (with candles on top!) and the cold clip in a junk box. I put it together and ordered some Fuji film from B&H. Wish me luck!

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  11. My pack film camera (320) has settings for ISO 75 and ISO 3000, but I have two packs of the Sepia ISO 1500 film -- my worry is that the Lighten/Darken adjuster on the camera may not be able to compensate for that large a difference in sensitivity.

    Does anybody have any experience of running ISO 1500 pack film on ISO 3000 (and presumably setting the Lighten dial up a bit/lot) or would it just be a waste of time and they'll all come out like night shots with the lights off?

    I've quite happily run it with ISO 80 Chocolate and ISO 100 Fuji FPC, but by tweaking the Darken dial a little bit, but that's for a much smaller difference in sensitivity.

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  12. i don't use the automatic folders, but i've used sepia in my big swinger 3000 and it worked out fine. i'd imagine it would be okay on the 3000 setting with some tweaking of the lighten/darken knob.

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  13. Matthew Miller1:18 PM

    I just got a Polaroid Colorpack 2 today. I'm currently using the Fuji FP-3000B film and I just took a test shot and set it to 3.5 feet, but it doesn't focus in on one thing, it has everything in focus. Why is that? Do you have that same problem?

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  14. that's what 3000 is supposed to do. you typically leave the focus at "5". the film doesn't allow for much depth of field, unless you have a manual camera and an ND filter.

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  15. I've got two of the passport/ID cameras: a MiniPortrait 202 and a Laminex LX400.

    The Miniportrait 202 has a removable Type 100 back, that I imagine will take Type 80 as well, although I can't conceive of someone wasting it in such manner. As the back is removable, it can take a 4x5 back as well. It has 3 shutter speeds [60, 125 and Bulb] and aperture settings of 8, 11, 16, 22 and 32, and a fixed focus of 1.2m [1.92m with the adapters]. The shutters fire simultaneously. As far as I know, the 402 is the same camera with 4 lenses.

    The Laminex LX400 shoots 4 shots on a piece of Type 100 film, has a built in flash, and will allow you to fire off one to four "frames" in your shot. It has to be plugged in via a cord, although there was a battery pack made for it. Again, one could probably use Type 80 in it, but it would be a waste. This back is not removable.

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  16. Matthew Miller4:33 PM

    what do you mean by a manual camera?

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  17. no batteries, no autoexposure:

    http://moominsean.blogspot.com/2009/08/polaroid-sans-auto-manual-cameras.html

    more expensive and "nicer" build.

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  18. Matthew Miller4:44 PM

    how can i do that if my film is already in the camera?

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  19. Matthew Miller4:45 PM

    Sorry, I didn't mean to say that.
    I wish I could find one of those at my local thrift store. :/

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  20. Hi,

    GREAT site! Many thanks.

    Try here for fuji instant film - http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/default.php?cat=1&type=1205&man=0&filterwords=&go=SEARCH&comp=

    Pt

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  21. Archetypo6:17 AM

    Hey Sean,

    Might want to take "The Clincher" off the list of type 100 and 80 list. It only takes Type 80!

    Unless there is different one out there with the same name. I'm sure mine is not someone's idea of a joke and had the faceplate replaced. I mean, I have the box and all that too with "The Clincher" on it.

    I found one and bought it thinking it would take Type 100 film, after much careful checking both the Landlist and your post here. Bwahh I'm not using my last box of Viva in this!

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  22. Anonymous9:37 AM

    hey,
    i have a very old viva polaroid portrait lens. what film would you recommend to buy for it?

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  23. Anonymous4:25 PM

    Hello all,

    Where can you buy Fuji FP-400C or FP-3000C (does it exist?) or a flash for the Miniportrait 202?

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  24. those two films do not exist. there is a 400B that they recently stopped making. no idea on the flash...ebay?

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  25. Anonymous12:49 PM

    In 1961 polaroid came out with 10 second rollfim, What i need to confirm is did this film work in polaroid land camera 80a....Thanks

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  26. Anonymous7:14 AM

    You mentioned seeing a camera used by dentists; this is probably a CU-5 which takes type 100 film. It was a purpose-made close up camera which incorporated a ring flash and was sold by Polaroid's Business & professional Products Division in the 1970s and 80s for industrial, medical and scientific applications. It was a modular design and came with a variety of adapters according to the application. For dental/othodontal applications it came with various adapters such as intra-oral reflectors and lip retractors (for anterior shots).

    Other applications included pathology (biological specimens, autopsies and electrophoresis gels), industrial NDT (non-destructive testing) / quality testing, oscillography and scintilography.

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  27. The Polaroid page says that EE33 works with 87, and you dont? Who should I trust? few people say that EE33 works fine with Fujifilm FP-100C too. So....

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  28. as far as i know, the ee33 only takes type 80s, and it doesn't have a switch on top for 75/3000, so it should only be able to use 88, 84, 89 and viva. there may be some mod to get it to take type 100s, like fuji, but i've not seen it. there is an ee66 that takes type 100s, and has the 75/3000 switch on the top.

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